Date: 2009-11-21, 8:49PM PST
What compels so many people who have no/almost no budget that their project needs/deserves the Red Cam and prime lenses? If this was pre-red would they have been asking for 35mm? What about HPX-170's? EX-1 or 3? Or, god forbid, an HVX-200A HD P2 camcorder? It truly escapes me. They have no money to pay anyone, yet they seem to be able to afford the Red rental ($50-80k cost for full RED setup/lenses) . And all of these projects have very successful people attached or working on them, yet no $$$ for anyone. Do these people realize the quality of the other cameras or is it just to be able to talk about the project meriting Red technology? And what about post production using the RED workflow. Are you able to find people who actually do this for nothing? Not ripping on anyone, looking for answers really, its truly amazing if this is possible. Make a movie on RED with no money. Its a complete head scratcher to me. Completely.
Compensation: work with famous people, eat and get a dvd. i guess this is all to it?
-------------------
RE: Question for all RED project seekeers.
Date: 2009-11-21, 10:20PM PST
I completely agree!
I’m tired of seeing producers and directors on here asking for the RED. Ask any cinematographer that’s used one. The RED is crap! It over heats, it does not respond well to low lighting, and its colors and contrast is off. Hire a DP, tell them your project and budget and have them recommend a camera that’s best for your film. Your low-budget,short,indy film isn’t going to be any better shot on an over hyped camera. It’s all about the story you tell.
Compensation: food stamps
------------------------
Re: Question for all RED project seekers.
Date: 2009-11-21, 10:50PM PST
I too agree.
If your project isn't destined for theatrical distribution on the big screen, then there's no need for 4k resolution or Red's raw format.
Even many mainstream big budget films are shot 1080p, not 4k (e.g. Public Enemies, 2012, Avatar, etc.).
I've seen projects destined for the internet shot on a Red!
I dare say an EX1 with a 35mm adapter looks slightly better than a Red to my eye.
--------------------------
re: Question for all RED seekers (Hollywood)
Date: 2009-11-21, 11:14PM PST
The RED is a great camera, with a few limitations. When used within its parameters, it can create beautiful images. That being said, it is one tool amidst many others that should be used when and if it fits the story, creative vision, and, obviously, the budget. Most new film makers want to shoot on RED because they hear that they can get them cheap, and that they will look as good as film, since their movie will go theatrical. The truth is that the RED isn't cheap (over $60k for a shootable package), it doesn't have the latitude and feel of film, and , most importantly, the odds are very much against their first (second, or third) film going theatrical. If they would just approach things realistically, they can shoot on virtually any of the amazing HD cameras that can be had for under $10,000 (Sony EX3 1080p Cinealta, as example), at a price point that makes sense for their budget and the rental of the gear (anywhere from $200 to $400 per day, complete package). With the addition of a 35mm lens adaptor, I would bet money that a well lit scene shot on an EX3 and a well lit scene shot on RED would be indistinguishable to the human eye. It's great to dream big... that is what Hollywood is all about. But at some point, you have to fit your dream into your fiscal reality and make the best of it.
---------------------------
RE: Question for all RED project seekeers
Date: 2009-11-22, 12:46AM PST
I have just worked on a series of commercials (national campaign) for a big chain store.
Their budget was HUGE. All the toys (Skorpio heads, Musco trucks, Russian camera car !
They used 5 cameras at the same time. Did they use the RED?
Of course not, they used the Panasonic HPX3000 !!!
I really think its funny when producers and directors wants to use the Red, just because they heard somewhere that its the "best" camera around.
Saturday, November 21, 2009
Monday, November 16, 2009
To All DPs & Cinematographers
Date: 2009-11-16, 8:40PM PST
If anyone is offered a feature to shoot beginning in December for NO PAY or Deferred Pay Please tell the producers that Shooting a Motion Picture is an Artform, and a PAYED job.
Please Stop bringing down quality of life and quality of production by allowing producers to run rampant on gigs where they want you to shoot for free.
The reason they want you for free is because they had another sucker shoot their last film for free, and they learned their lesson. There are no contacts to be made, no relationship to be built. These bloodsucking leeches are looking to live off of YOUR BLOOD, YOUR SWEAT, YOUR TEARS, and YOUR IMAGINATION.
Tell them to try and shoot it themselves if its such an honor to be involved in a no-budget production. Then they can add another credit to their Lousy Bloodsucking Resumee. No one will be able to watch the film, but that doesn't matter because it was FREE.
Location: Los Angeles
Compensation: Blood Money
If anyone is offered a feature to shoot beginning in December for NO PAY or Deferred Pay Please tell the producers that Shooting a Motion Picture is an Artform, and a PAYED job.
Please Stop bringing down quality of life and quality of production by allowing producers to run rampant on gigs where they want you to shoot for free.
The reason they want you for free is because they had another sucker shoot their last film for free, and they learned their lesson. There are no contacts to be made, no relationship to be built. These bloodsucking leeches are looking to live off of YOUR BLOOD, YOUR SWEAT, YOUR TEARS, and YOUR IMAGINATION.
Tell them to try and shoot it themselves if its such an honor to be involved in a no-budget production. Then they can add another credit to their Lousy Bloodsucking Resumee. No one will be able to watch the film, but that doesn't matter because it was FREE.
Location: Los Angeles
Compensation: Blood Money
Wednesday, November 4, 2009
Re: Deferred Gigs (from LA Producer List)
Dear LAProds-
First, if you wish to respond to Todd's posting, requesting for recommendations for camera and audio for his doc in Bali, please do it off group. Secondly, I realize that I am hard on those who post for deferred payment projects and there is good reason. Because, I too have, back in the day, had been one of those who was intimately involved with them and can attest from experience that nothing good came of them.
Although involved in a creative capacity, and at the time, unaware of the business handling's of the producers, I was still involved and people who trusted me, were hurt
It left a bad taste in people's mouth and the trust I had worked hard to build, was marred. For some, to the point of being irreparable. Since I am one who never misses an opportunity to draw historical correlations to Hitler during the Wiemar Republic, my involvement was not unlike a member of the SS who found themselves on the wrong side of things declaring: "Well, how was I to know?"
While I did not know everything that was going on, I was no less guilty than those who I associated with. And much like the ex-smoker who fervently proselytizes against smoking when the occasion arises....
In the film: *The War Room*, James Carville, said that "Other than time, the most precious thing we can offer someone is our labor." When we are involved with projects that are dear to us, our judgement
becomes clouded. Particularly as we evade the facts that there is a lack of financing and substitute it with romantic superlatives, higher moral hyperbole and the all too prevailing stream of nonsense that promises our project is good for the career of those we are abusing.
Whether it is the thrill of being creative or simply pure unadulterated ego, the potential for a disconnect from those around us, to be present is always lurking. This disconnect fabricates the base justification of using someone's time and labor to benefit
ourselves without penality of moral repercussions. Sure, we justify it is for a 'good cause', for the benefit of all-mankind. Sure, we intend to make it up to them on the next one. But seriously...
Although I have worked long enough to have reversed that blemish upon my career, my conscious, thankfully is there to remind me that the future cannot engage in making the same mistakes as the past.
For any of us.
Therefore, I have to admit that I am finding it challenging that those of you who responded to the query for Shooters and Audio in Bali, that you would recommend your contacts, friends and people that you have built relationships with, to a project that only guarantees payment upon selling of the pilot- particularly a project that is travelling to a foreign country. Yes, I realize it is Bali and not Mogadishu, Although the lure of going to Bali would be tempting to anyone- myself included, however, the lack of salary immediately raises questions as to whether there is the ability to facilitate the financial burden of travel, housing and food for the crew, while in a foreign country, without a financial safety net should there be the need of
one.
Hey, I am not omniscient, and perhaps there is a knee jerk reaction on my part, however ask yourself is this worth risking your contacts for- and as equally as important, is this worth risking your reputation for?
Sincerely,
Co-Moderator,
"Nick"
---------------------------------
Wed Nov 4, 2009 11:58 am (PST)
From a composer who recently turned down a deferred gig, which had
"allegedly" no money for music, I offer this:
Today I visited Abbey Road to see the score for that film being
recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra.
Take from that what you will.
---------------------------------------
I love how producers cry about 'no money' when we're in production, and then brag about how cheaply they made the film when it's in distribution. "We made this Feature Film for $15,000." Right. By begging and borrowing and using other people's equipment and skills and supplies and labor for free.
I have nothing against struggling filmmakers trying to make their shows and I've helped quite a few, but they've been honest about it. As long as we have people willing to work for free, producers will continue to take advantage of it.
Good group policy. Thanks.
First, if you wish to respond to Todd's posting, requesting for recommendations for camera and audio for his doc in Bali, please do it off group. Secondly, I realize that I am hard on those who post for deferred payment projects and there is good reason. Because, I too have, back in the day, had been one of those who was intimately involved with them and can attest from experience that nothing good came of them.
Although involved in a creative capacity, and at the time, unaware of the business handling's of the producers, I was still involved and people who trusted me, were hurt
It left a bad taste in people's mouth and the trust I had worked hard to build, was marred. For some, to the point of being irreparable. Since I am one who never misses an opportunity to draw historical correlations to Hitler during the Wiemar Republic, my involvement was not unlike a member of the SS who found themselves on the wrong side of things declaring: "Well, how was I to know?"
While I did not know everything that was going on, I was no less guilty than those who I associated with. And much like the ex-smoker who fervently proselytizes against smoking when the occasion arises....
In the film: *The War Room*, James Carville, said that "Other than time, the most precious thing we can offer someone is our labor." When we are involved with projects that are dear to us, our judgement
becomes clouded. Particularly as we evade the facts that there is a lack of financing and substitute it with romantic superlatives, higher moral hyperbole and the all too prevailing stream of nonsense that promises our project is good for the career of those we are abusing.
Whether it is the thrill of being creative or simply pure unadulterated ego, the potential for a disconnect from those around us, to be present is always lurking. This disconnect fabricates the base justification of using someone's time and labor to benefit
ourselves without penality of moral repercussions. Sure, we justify it is for a 'good cause', for the benefit of all-mankind. Sure, we intend to make it up to them on the next one. But seriously...
Although I have worked long enough to have reversed that blemish upon my career, my conscious, thankfully is there to remind me that the future cannot engage in making the same mistakes as the past.
For any of us.
Therefore, I have to admit that I am finding it challenging that those of you who responded to the query for Shooters and Audio in Bali, that you would recommend your contacts, friends and people that you have built relationships with, to a project that only guarantees payment upon selling of the pilot- particularly a project that is travelling to a foreign country. Yes, I realize it is Bali and not Mogadishu, Although the lure of going to Bali would be tempting to anyone- myself included, however, the lack of salary immediately raises questions as to whether there is the ability to facilitate the financial burden of travel, housing and food for the crew, while in a foreign country, without a financial safety net should there be the need of
one.
Hey, I am not omniscient, and perhaps there is a knee jerk reaction on my part, however ask yourself is this worth risking your contacts for- and as equally as important, is this worth risking your reputation for?
Sincerely,
Co-Moderator,
"Nick"
---------------------------------
Wed Nov 4, 2009 11:58 am (PST)
From a composer who recently turned down a deferred gig, which had
"allegedly" no money for music, I offer this:
Today I visited Abbey Road to see the score for that film being
recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra.
Take from that what you will.
---------------------------------------
I love how producers cry about 'no money' when we're in production, and then brag about how cheaply they made the film when it's in distribution. "We made this Feature Film for $15,000." Right. By begging and borrowing and using other people's equipment and skills and supplies and labor for free.
I have nothing against struggling filmmakers trying to make their shows and I've helped quite a few, but they've been honest about it. As long as we have people willing to work for free, producers will continue to take advantage of it.
Good group policy. Thanks.
RE: Non-Paid/Deferred Gigs
Date: 2009-11-04, 3:41PM PST
For those that persist to post Non-Paid/Deferred Gigs in the paid section, please grow a brain before craigslist is nothing but a site to come look at all the pretty flagged ads. In case you didn't get it the first time,,,(paid) means monetary compensation even if it's the ridiculous low rates this site has been famous for. Gas,Meal,Copy,Credit are all non-monetary forms of compensation and should be listed in the non-paid section children. mmmk
Location: Flakeland
Compensation: Duurrr
For those that persist to post Non-Paid/Deferred Gigs in the paid section, please grow a brain before craigslist is nothing but a site to come look at all the pretty flagged ads. In case you didn't get it the first time,,,(paid) means monetary compensation even if it's the ridiculous low rates this site has been famous for. Gas,Meal,Copy,Credit are all non-monetary forms of compensation and should be listed in the non-paid section children. mmmk
Location: Flakeland
Compensation: Duurrr
Monday, November 2, 2009
Need FULL crew for COMMERCIAL
Date: 2009-11-02, 5:08PM PST
We are going to be MILLIONAIRES ( if a lot of shit beyond reason happens and we don't get sued for labor fraud )
Need IA crew of 100, 35mm camera packages, 10 Ton truck, Generator, Locations, food, PAs, A list actors willing to work as PAs when not on camera and a fucking IDEA for a Doritos commercial.
Don't let some bitch with a video phone outdo professionals.
Let's level the playing field... I want it all for FREE so we can retire or at least get back to work.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: Film does not pay. Look around.
We are going to be MILLIONAIRES ( if a lot of shit beyond reason happens and we don't get sued for labor fraud )
Need IA crew of 100, 35mm camera packages, 10 Ton truck, Generator, Locations, food, PAs, A list actors willing to work as PAs when not on camera and a fucking IDEA for a Doritos commercial.
Don't let some bitch with a video phone outdo professionals.
Let's level the playing field... I want it all for FREE so we can retire or at least get back to work.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: Film does not pay. Look around.
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