How to never find a real DP

Posted: 2013-06-12, 7:06AM PDT

Producers: if you list "pay rate TBD, please submit rate" you are an idiot. Real DPs have a day rate you will balk at. Real producers have a budget and know what people and gear cost for a given type and size of shoot. Any DP knows YOU GO FIRST on CL. So producer... post the rate. Now... DPs easily get $650-1500 a day for non union work ( labor only.. no camera) Yes $1500 is over scale but you don't need to be union to make $. If you offer $500..400..300 a day AND expect a DP with specific equipment (Epic+Zeiss) that rents for many times over what you offer... why are you suprised that the only replies you get are "me and my T3i instead" or trust fund kids with shit reels? You either get a green shooter who arrives on a skateboard with his kit in his backpack or a rich asshole who is subsidizing your movie with his gear to build his non existant reel. In either case those rates do not indicate reliable fasfast and repeatable quality. Most real DPs work part time and are glad to do an interesting indie project for a few bucks. Do not tell them what to shoot or how to shoot it or what to use if you cannot pay for it. And as for reels... if you ask for camera -specific reels you have no idea how to look at reels. None at all. There are over 25 cameras in current use. Which DP has demo footage from all of them and owns all of them ? Exactly. And you do not know what it took in the way of time lights and crew to get that reel. If the work is good TALK to thd DP and TRUST the DP. Or shoot it yourself. Look in the hole a d push the button. Its easy. You can do it; everyone else does.

• Location: Earth

Reality Check for Delusional Wannabe's

Get a clue you morons. If the only thing you have to offer is a meal, copy, credit, gift card, deferred pay, a paying gig "next time" "Spec" (spec not to be paid) , passion project or any other bullshit way to ask for experienced pro with pro gear, you wont get it. You will NEVER get anywhere in this business. Pilots for "major networks" are NOT FREE! They are PAID GIGS.
Who are the people asking for these ridiculous demands? DP with Epic, Scarlet, Alexa etc. must have own gear. Sound guys must have own gear mixer boom 4 lavs 8 channel recorder a 2 ton Grip truck with a generator and HMI's for $100? $70.00? $50.00? Are you serious? It costs me $60.00 to put fuel in my gas tank. was there some sort of email sent out to the general public stating that you can now ask for tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear and industry professionals for next to nothing? not to mention the most important thing EXPERIENCE! All of the greatest gear does not mean you can get the results you want. Im trying to understand where you people are coming from literally and figuratively.
please reply with an intelligent answer so i can understand.

• Location: Anywhere
• Compensation: IOU a sandwich  

RE: Crew Survival

We were shooting an indie feature, SAG but not DGA and not IA. Everyone was on flat day rates, 1099 no overtime.
Our 12hr days were soon turning into 14, then 16, and once 20 hours. Turnarounds were shortened as well. Someone got wind that camera was getting a "bump" under the table every time we went over 12. So we rallied together, G&E, wardrobe, art, sound, Ad's, all of us. We went to the producers and demanded overtime. And the days got back to 12hrs.
It's important to stand together. Share information. Help keep your rates at an appropriate scale. Help keep your fellow crew members from getting burned. Collective bargaining works, whether you are working under an IATSE contract or not.


Original Story 2:
Much like the story below only working on a current digital film (the usual low/no budget music video crap) as the DIT. I held the footage hostage and didn't release any drives until we got paid..


Original story:
A friend told me a story about shooting a project on 35mm film back in the day....They did not pay the crew at the end of the shoot as agreed...He called the 2nd AC at the lab and had him hold on to the shot film....then he told them he would expose a roll of film to the California sunshine each day until he and the crew were paid...it only took one day...and one roll of film!

Do you have a production survival tip or story to share?

Have you had to go to the extreme to get an honest days pay for an honest days work?

Tell us how you did it.

• Location: Los Angeles

Filmmakers: Stop Asking For Free Shit

   You have a film or short that you need to have done? Lean how to budget. If your car breaks down or something goes wrong in your house or apartment are the repairs done free? Maybe you'll hook them up later with paid work? I don't think so. And you douche bags who are "award winners" and still can't pay your crew, you motherfuckers need to get quadruple pimp slapped. If you've won awards you can afford to pay. Nothing comes free. No one is trying to do this for the "love". Save up your money for your project so you can at least offer to pay SOMETHING. Otherwise it's not even cheap labor, it's slave labor.

If you have no budget do some things on your own. You don't need a storyboard artist. Draw stick figures. Spielberg did it, why can't you? No DP? Shoot it yourself with a camcorder. Lighting? 3 lights, Key, Fill, and Back. Done. Editing? Use freeware like Lightworks (28 Days Later, Hanna, Pulp Fiction and several other movies) or OpenShot Video Editor to edit your project. If you're creative enough to make a movie, you can budget your project. Want your Kickstarter project to look good? Pay for it to look good and I'm sure you'll get ample seed money. Don't expect pro level work if you can't pay for it.

• Location: Los Angeles
• Compensation: Why should I? Y'all don't. 

Need DP with with Alexa

Need DP with Alexa

Looking for a DP with Alexa camera package. Experienced director, great crew, great script, talent attached. Filming starts April 20th. 8 day shoot. ($200/14 Hour Day Alexa rental). Please respond with imdb credits, and Reel. SAG, DGA, WGA spec sitcom pilot. Self-financed.

Glenoaks at Olive Ave

• Location: Burbank
• Compensation: camera rental, credit, deferred salary, profit participation 

--------------------------------

RE: Need DP with with Alexa (Burbank)

opportunity of the life here guys!

$75,000 alexa package (CHECK)
$25k in lenses (CHECK)
years of experience with shooting and lighting (CHECK)

and i only have to work 14 hours? and make 200 bucks per day..

WOW.. this is it guys!

SIGN ME UP  

Attention all DP's & Camera operators!!!

Ok folks are we not all tired of the joke cheap beyond belief rates people think they can offer here.
Here's the plan and let's ALL stick to it.
When you see one of these "Looking for DP with gear for $100 per day or $75 or 50 or nothing. BOOK IT!!! YES BOOK IT.
And then stay home that day. Or call them 2 hours before the "shoot" and tell them a paying client just called last minute and sorry you CHEAP DICK.
So PLEASE let's ALL DO THIS AND MAYBE THEY'LL GET THE MESSAGE!!!

• Compensation: 11 dollars lunch & credit  

RE: Location Sound Needed

Wow, so you're a "full service production company" looking for a sound guy with a boom and a few lavaliere microphones, huh?
Since you're a full service production company, obviously you're doing it for a profit. And what you're offering me is "no/low/deferred pay"?
So is it no pay, low pay, or deferred pay? They are all different in terms. Don't bother! Because we both know that you're not willing to pay a dime no matter what.

And here is your magic word, "We are looking to potentially hire someone full time onto our staff for future shoots."

By adding that one sentence, do you really believe that anyone believes you're gonna pay in future for something you're asking me to do for free this time?? With all my expensive equipment? Come on man, you're gonna just keep looking for more slaves, right sir MOTHERFUCKER!!!!! 

-----------------------------------

Original motherfucking post:

We are a full service production company looking for a sound mixer for a shoot this Saturday April 6th from 5pm-2am. Need someone with a boom and a few lavaliere microphones. Shoot will include 3 locations. This is no/low/deferred pay. It is for copy, credit, meal, and gas. We are looking to potentially hire someone full time onto our staff for future shoots.

• Location: Loser Angeles
• Compensation: I'm gonna stick my boom in your ridiculous asshole!! 

RE- Sound Mixer

   So Let me get this straight- If I bring my expensive sound gear to your shoot you'll pay me $50/day, but if you have to rent in gear elsewhere you'll pay me even less? Oh gee where do I sign up of this great opportunity.

Reality check!
Minimum wage for California is $112 for a 12 hour day. That is what McDonald's pays high school dropouts to flip burgers and guess what McD's doesn't ask these kids to supply their own grill flipper and burgers.

A basic sound kit rental from a rental house will cost $450 for that you'll get a mixer, recorder, boom and a couple of lavs- that's it. No comteks, no extra mics no extras of any kind.
A skilled mixer will cost you more than minimum wage- approximate regular rate is around $550/ day, but most will offer good discounts to low budget indies



Post like this are not only illegal under CA wage laws they are disrespectful to our craft. Let me guess you're going to be feeding us unrefrigerated Subway Tuna sandwiches for lunch too. If you want to make your film on the cheap get your friends and family to help out- If you want it done right raise some money to pay professionals properly.

Original Posting:

Need a sound mixer for a shoot April 3-5 and 7&8th. $50 per day. Need to get someone ASAP, we have full production insurance. Can provide you with gear but your day rate will have to be less if we provide the gear. Our films do really well in festivals!

IMDB
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2002140/

Contact me ASAP

Ronnie

• Location: wherever you my be

RE: DP/Cinematographer, $1500, 21 day-shoot, price with red scarlet/ep

So let me see if I understand this properly! You are offering a DP (highly skilled position) $71.42 a day for him AND his RED camera (scarlet or EPIC)... and if the HIGHLY SKILLED DP brings lighting you will pay him/her $28.57 for a LIGHTING PACKAGE!!!!

1). California State minimum law is $112.00 a day for a 12 hour day X 21 days = $2,352.00 (I guess you just went over budget).
2). A RED Epic is going to cost you at LEAST $1500 a week... on a 21 day shoot... which will either be 3 and a half week rental (shooting 6 days a week) or a 4 week one day rental if you are shooting 5 days a week... so lets just figure around $5,000.00 for your camera package.
3). Lighting Package? well lets look at just ONE light! Something simple 4Ft 4 Bank System (with globes) $40.00 a DAY for ONE light! x21 days so we got $840.00 for ONE LIGHT..... I get a total of $8,192.00 for a MINIMUM WAGE DP, a nice camera and ONE LIGHT!!!!

WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM????? If you don't have the money to pay for SKILLED LABOR - Do not shoot! Without your DP you are basically shooting Radio! Oh but I guess you are looking for a Sound Guy with gear for $71.42 a day too....

Original Post -

21 day shoot: starting 4/14/13 (Los Angeles primarily, Palmdale)

$1500: for DP services and use of yourcamera (Red Scarlet or Epic only)

$2100 if you also bring your own lights with the camera package

Location: Los Angeles
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $1500 (DP services plus camera use); $2100 (DP services + camera use+ lighting p

If YOU want LOW or NO PAY...READ!

Some helpful tips for those looking to hire creative freelancers for LOW or NO PAY:


LOW PAY:

Don't say "the pay is low BUT we will have MORE work for you if it works out!"
WHY? Who wants MORE LOW PAY?
Instead say "if this works out, we will have other HIGHER paying work!"
See what I mean?


NO PAY:

Don't say "there is NO PAY BUT we will give you CREDIT!"
WHY? Credit is AUTOMATIC and goes without saying, it's industry standard.
Instead say "unfortunately there is NO PAY, BUT, the project is REALLY great creatively, so you will get to do very compelling work for your reel and you will meet and work with some great people who are driven to succeed!"
See what I mean?


IF YOU CAN'T say either of these things, you probably should not be expecting LOW or NO pay from qualified and talented freelancers.
This IS a give and take, not ALL take!

• Location: Santa Monica

Crew Jobs

Is it just me or are all the offered rates off by one decimal point? This is utterly 100% MFing crazy.

When craigslist just started, mandy.com was still viable. I got real jobs on TV and smaller ( under $1M) films from both. and real corporate gigs that paid a grand a day.

Now, Mandy.com is bullshit and CL is.... Unpronounceable. ....Unbelievable,,, does anyone have words for what's going on ?

We also see the current magic recurring posts from the ass hat who DEMANDS a DP who's shot a $10M+ feature or better. That's cool. There are 20 agencies in town who book those. May I suggest Montana Artists, Dattner Dispoto, and The Skouras Agency for starters ? They all turned me down and I have had 2 theatrical features so their DPs must be good. Or maybe it's because they all use 5k cameras like the ones mentioned in your ad. Never mind that only one of those cameras is 5K.

But what do I know ? Apparently nothing. I keep coming back to this toilet.

Grandpa used to ask " if you have WANT in one hand and SHIT in the other, which hand fills up first ?"

• Location: L.A.

DPs - 7Ds and BURGER KING

   All DPs have to look forward to on this "CL crew gigs section" is having complete irresponsible, wannabe filmmakers posting for highly-skilled DPs with their own gear, or worse yet, using their 7Ds with no professional lighting gear, or sound gear and offering
a whopping $40.00 a day.. Now that's a big whopper!!!

Hell, you can make $8.00 bucks an hour at Burger King.
This forum and gig section has been dragged completely into the dirt!
The days of making $300.00 a day and shooting a great script
are long gone!

Long live the wannabes who have ruined it for everyone!
Congratulations! Your selfishness has conquered the film industry
and destroyed any hope for real filmmakers who care.

• Location: Lost Angeles
• Compensation: one sad dime  

For the hiring of sound mixers

   Sound mixers get a bum deal. We have to invest over $10k to get decent gear and enough of it to be able to handle the demands of what production wants. We provide a valuable service that is even more important than your picture. Your film has dialogue, people want to hear it and hear it clearly. We try to do that for you despite poor locations, poor wardrobe choices, and sometimes, ridiculous shot composition. A camera crew is exactly that, a crew. Operator, 1st AC, 2nd AC. If there's no 2nd AC then there's damn sure a 1st. Sound mixers are apparently expected to do the job of two people and get paid peanuts for it. In the LA area, the absolute minimum for our services should be $350 per 12 hour day with $250 for a kit fee. Base minimum.

Any asshole with a DSLR can call themselves a DP and show up on set and get paid decently because they have a camera. A 744t recorder is nearly twice the cost of a 5d markIII and a 788 is more so. On top of that, producers want at least 2 wireless, a shotgun mic with great rejection, and comteks so they can hear and complain. Cameras have gotten cheaper but sound equipment hasn't. Don't pay less than minimum wage. $100 a day or $150 a day is garbage. If you have name talent you can afford a rate. You don't go into a store and say, "I want to buy this pair of pants that costs $40 bucks but I've only got $10 so thats what I'm gonna pay you." You want good sound? We are an investment. We buy more equipment so your movie can sound better and we'll work with you often if you do shit right. We can't do that if we're not even making our rent. Everyone has to eat and have a place to stay and have gas to put in our car.

We help people want to watch your movie. A film with terrible sound and a gorgeous picture is still unwatchable, a film with mediocre picture and excellent sound will be watched in its entirety (provided the story is worth it).

Don't insult production sound mixers or boom operators (two separate jobs, by the way) by wanting to pay $150 for a 12 hour day, subway for lunch, and no equipment fee. $350 +$250 kit fee is minimum. If we really really like you, we might do it for less if we're bored. But don't insult us by calling it a job.

• Location: all of LA
• Compensation: $350 + $250 kit fee minimum 

RE: NEED a DP (for FOOD&DRINK)

Date: 2012-09-24, 12:01PM PDT

---

Whoever posted the AD below, I truly admire his/her guts...
This guy is asking for any DP out there with 5D or 7D (notice that a specific type of camera is required. It can't be Panasonic HVX200 because it's too outdated), and he generously offers...

FOOD AND DRINKS WILL BE AVAILABLE.

Wow, I have a 5D so I'm entitled for food and drinks. That's a fair deal because I'm feeling hungry and thirsty lately. I'm wondering if I throw in my 7D as well, does he add a desert, maybe?

Someone, please advise him that he has a much better chance to find a DP if he waits at the US border for people successfully crossing from Mexico because they are very hungry and thirsty, spending
3 nights in the desert. Of course they all own 5D or 7D (some smugglers even own fast prime lenses)...

Original Post:
I am looking for a DP who has and can work a 5D and 7D camera. We are shooting a webisode and need extra crew. Food and drinks will be available. Great set for networking and meeting new people and perfecting your craft. Be a great samaritan! Looking to shoot within the next week or two!

• Location: Homeless Shelter
• Compensation: Food and drinks, possibly desert, too.  
  

How to get Flagged (a Tutorial)

Date: 2012-09-20, 2:10AM PDT

Start off by offering NO PAY... and requiring that the potential slave have thousands of dollars of Camera, Audio, Lighting or Makeup Kit
as a requirement of the job.
(Remember, those of us that use this equipment probably paid a pretty penny to acquire it... I know I paid out
quite bit for my Camera Gear... so consider that when you look for free rentals)

Try asking a Camera Rental House for free gear...

If you pay, offer an insultingly low amount, like ANYTHING below Minimum Wage for a 12 hour day...
(which is currently $64/8 Hours, $88/10 Hours, $112 for 12 Hours in most of California)

offer IMDB credits and food as the only pay, as if you have some magical ability to grant IMDB credits that no one else has...
(I can create a bogus IMDB page that will get me an interview with Martin Scorsese in mere minutes... so, IMDB means nothing)

Use the following keywords (all as reasons to accept low or no pay)
"Great Crew"
"Fun Production"
"Labor of Love"
"Pro Crew, all donating their time."
"Award Winning Director, In Between Projects"
"A-List Talent all working for free"
"No Pay on this one, but future jobs will have pay." (Assuming you really DO have a next job)
(none of these will pay the rent, or Auto Insurance, real money, will)

Sound like a total Douchebag, and require a headshot for a below the line crew position that will never appear on camera...
(that screams "I only want to hire hot females" that I can hit on while they are working for me, for free...)

THAT, is how you get flagged... in case you haven't already figured that out...

• Location: Production Land!
• Compensation: Yes, you will pay ME!!   

Come work for me for FREE! It'll be AWESOME!

Date: 2012-09-20, 8:30PM PDT

Hi! I'm a douche and I'm making an ULB feature and need crew! I need all the positions filled so please, apply here, but please be advised, I'm only hiring professionals! In order to apply you need:

1. At least 5 years of experience

2. A resume/reel/IMDB link that's gonna knock my socks off

3. A credit card, because I'm probably gonna make you pay for stuff yourself...but keep those receipts, because I "swear" I'll pay you back...

4. A great car...or better yet, a truck...because I'm gonna need you to help me move stuff...

5. An iron stomach because I'm only going to get the crappiest and cheapest food to feed my crew...when I feed you at all.

It's gonna be a blast. This is a total passion project so I'm trying to make this for as little as possible (free) and make as much money off of it as possible. I can't pay anyone because I don't have the money...or actually, I do have the money but it's so much more fun to spend on myself. The whole thing is gonna shoot for 15 days out in BFE and you have to drive yourself (good thing you have that big car). Oh, I'm not paying for gas so I hope you get good mileage! And by the way, can I catch a ride...I don't want to put the miles on my car if you're already headed out there.

You know what, I might just have another project in a few months/years/decades so working on this for free is just like a really long job interview and I "might" hire you again!

So, send me your info. Oh, headshots too...I need actors. And bank information...because like I said, I still need to buy stuff...

And if you're in college, even better...I'll give you college credits for that internship you need...you'll be working for production AND I'll make you my personal assistant so you can expect to pick up my laundry, check my voicemail/fb/email/twitter/pinterest/linkd/craigslist/eharmony accounts, pick up after my dogs (I have 12 Great Danes..hope you like fur) and babysit evenings and weekends for my two sociopathic children...

Copy (if I remember to burn the DVDs), Credit (forever in my heart because I'm not gonna take the time to put this on IMDB.COM) and my undying silent mockery of the fact that you're stupid enough to work for free.

Seriously guys? Let's get real. Shut down free projects...they're insulting to us all.

Location: Hollywood

Compensation: Hugs and unicorn farts.

How to handle deferments

Date: 2012-09-03, 3:52PM PDT

Many people posting ads on Craigslist attempt to offer deferments, instead of paying actual money. They promise to pay you when the money comes in (that's assuming any money comes in, and after they've paid everyone else.)

So how should you respond to such offers? You should only accept a deferment if the person offering it is really serious about his project, and really intends to pay you. How do you know he's serious? Here's how you find out:

First, ask him if he really believes his film will make money. I mean, he REALLY believes it. Most of the time he will tell you he believes it.

Next, ask him what amount he's willing to GUARANTEE. In other words, how much will he promise to pay you if the movie DOESN'T make any money. The usual response is something like, "I can't guarantee it will make any money." But again, your question is how much he BELIEVES it will make money. If he really believes it will make money, he should be willing to guarantee future payment. If he isn't willing to guarantee future payment, he doesn't really believe it will make money. And if HE doesn't believe it will make money, neither should YOU!

So what if the rare situation arises where he is willing to make a guarantee, how do you make sure he will actually pay you? Very simple. Ask him to sign a promissory note, which is secured by some tangible asset. Usually his car will suffice. If he fails to pay the note, you take ownership of the asset. Secured promissory note forms are available at most stationery stores.

If he won't sign a secured promissory note, you can be sure he doesn't really believe his film will make money, and he has no intention of paying you. That's not a deferment, that's nothing more than an unsecured, interest free loan! If you really want to speculate, go buy a lottery ticket -- your odds of being paid are much better.

Don't be a sucker.

Compensation: Pay a fair wage for professional services

Film and edit w/PAY Only take a few hours

Date: 2012-08-24, 1:44PM PDT

LOOK. Unless you personally have filmed or edited something (other thank your kids bday party to show your friends at work) STOP estimating how much time something takes.

To film a scene the crew must get there at least a minimum of a few hours early to set up lights etc etc. The camera and rig itself can take about an hour to set up. Should we volunteer our time cuz "we'll be working with great people and can have possible exposure, plus possible future work" ?????

And it can take over a full day to upload media for editing, specifically RED footage etc. Should I sit for 2-3 days editing your project cuz you think it's going to sundance?? How about you pay me and if you actually get into sundance I'll give you your money back. That's a bet I'd take in a heartbeat!!!

SO STOP OFFERING 200 BUCKS FOR A FULL CREW WITH EQUIPMENT TO COME SHOOT AND CLAIM IT WILL ONLY TAKE A COUPLE HOURS

STOP OFFERING 100 BUCKS TO EDIT YOUR SHORT YOU SHOT ON THE RED.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BUDGET TO EDIT RED FOOTAGE THEN GO TO BEST BUY GET YOURSELF A HANDYCAM AND EDIT YOURSELF IN IMOVIE.

Location: LA LA LAND

Compensation: no pay

RE: Company Looking For Videographer

Date: 2012-08-02, 12:18AM PDT

Hey there Donald Tramp!

So you got a state of the art studio and are well connected in the music industry.

I bet your company invested a lot of money to put such a kick ass studio together. Am I right?

Yet you pretend there is no money to pay a competent professional videographer\editor.

What you offer instead is the chance to work for you for free, give you all the material and in returns you will reap the rewards. Right?

Augie. You are a piece of work. For lack of a better expletive.

Here's my take on your offer.

Sell the studio, get rid of your music industry connections, cause based on the shameless way you are begging for free work, 

you are not a very successful individual.

Don't drag an unsuspecting videographer\editor, who probably has to pay rent and eat, down into the muck pit.

Give it up, Augie. You are not making it in the business. And stop embarrassing yourself with these ridiculous scams to get free labor.

• Location: North Hollywood
• Compensation: SOME SHAME AND A BIT OF PITTY

---------------------------------------------

Company Looking For Videographer

Hi my name is Augie, i am looking for aspiring talented video editor/videographe that are looking to build their profilo. Currently my compan, Hype Noize is shooting a reality show and various music videos for artist under our label. This is a great opportunity for upcoming video editor/videographers. We are currently seeking someone for a part time/ full time position in our company. We film in a state of the art professional recording studio which is great for capturing visual aesthetics as you build your profilo. We are very well connected in the music industry as a networking source that you will be able to grow and get experience as you work with us. please check out our website www.hypenoize.com as well as some our videos http://vimeo.com/34152188 http://youtu.be/6cZxQZ95tow. Requirements - resume - show samples of your work- If videographer must use an HD camera ex. Cannon 5D/7D

This job offers no compensation

We are looking for highly motivated video editors and videographers

Serious inquiries only

Location: North Hollywood

it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

Compensation: no pay 

low budget projects looking for DP with RED camera package

Date: 2012-07-24, 11:48AM PDT

I am curious reading all those ultra low(no) budget film that are looking for DP/cinematographer/director of photographer with RED camera packages. You are paying not evening 10-20% of just the camera package rental market price. The DP could make more money per day just to rent out his/her RED camera package without working. Do these projects actually get what they are looking for?

Location: anyway

Compensation: no pay